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cwbe coordinatez:
101
63540
63590
5734320

ABSOLUT
KYBERIA
permissions
you: r,
system: public
net: yes

neurons

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total descendants::4601
total children::889
36 K

show[ 2 | 3] flat

Myslite si ze ma zmysel aby sa kyberie pokusili o to emitovat do obehu vlastny druh obeziva ?
nie - cela tato zalezitost s novymi menami je len docasny hype
 
23.1%
nie - je lepsie pridat sa k bitcoinu
 
49.5%
ano - ale jedine v pripade ze sa bude jednat o decentralizovane p2p obezivo
 
9.9%
ano - ale pre kyberiu sa viac hodia lokalne emitovane riesenia ako napr. LETS
 
4.2%
ano - je mi jedno ake riesenie, hlavne nech sa to uz rozbehne !
 
13.2%
212 voted

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prehlad aktualnych verzii klient aplikacii - referencna implementacia bitcoin-qt 0.8.3 - electrum 1.8.0 - multibit 0.5.12

pre rychlejsi start full nody (pre qt klient resp. armory a qt klient) blockchain ako torent. tento link na blockchain pribudol aj na bitcoin.org download stranke

kde sa obchoduje bitcoin? pie chart podla fiat a exchange: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/volumepie/

'testnet in a box' - spusti a pouzivaj vlastny testnet (na lokalnom stroji) http://sourceforge.net/projects/bitcoin/files/Bitcoin/testnet-in-a-box/
[ bitcoin.org | wiki | diskusne forum BitcoinTalk | stackexchange | reddit]

BTC mining
Bitcoin Mining - lahky uvod k teme
Bitcoin mining profitability calculator
jednoduchy Bitcoin mining profitability calculator
Cloud mining
Top Mining Contracts - reviews mining sharov
Scam Adviser - hodnotenie doveryhodnosti webov
BITMAIN HashNest (overene mmad)
CEX.IO (overene mmad, bitcointalk)
NiceHash - kupa, prenajom vykonu (vyzera byt legit)
mining HW - vyrobcovia
BitMain HW (AntMiner)
Black Arrow Mining HW
ButterflyLabs Mining HW
mining HW - e-shop, predaj
ASIC Miner Shop - e-shop na mining HW
Mining Hardware UK - e-shop
Eyeboot - e-shop (UK)
BitcoinWare.net - e-shop (Canada)

mining software
CGMiner (GitHub)
BFGMiner
BFGMiner (GitHub)

SCAM HW alebo shary:
BitcoinScammers - blacklist scammerov
HashRack.com - virtual shares (pozor SCAM!!!)
BitcoMiners.com - virtual shares (pozor SCAM!!!)
BitcoinFrenzy - virtual shares (pozor SCAM!!!)
ASIC Technologies - SCAM !!!, vyhnite sa oblukom

kurz BTC, grafy a statistiky
Sledovanie kurzu BitcoinWisdom.com
Bitcoinity - kurz, difficulty rate a pod.
GenesisBlock - grafy miningu, tradu, news
Sledovanie kurzu BigTerminal.com (BTC, LTC, EUR, USD...)
http://blockchain.info/charts Various bitcoin charts and currency statistics
BitcoinPulse - Tracking Bitcoin's Adoption
live monitor broadcastu do p2p siete
bitcointalk este raz link na diskusne forum
wiki/Trade najstarsi zoznam sluzieb/obchodov prijimajucich bitcoin
FiatLeak - watch the world's currencies flow into BTC in realtime
PREEV - BTC / EUR aktualny kurz (alebo ine meny)

faucety aka ziskavame BTC zadarmo
BitVisitor - BTC za pozeranie webov
CoinReaper - BTC za opisovanie catcha (faucety)
Free Bitcoin Lottery - natipujte cisla

burzy, escrows aka vymiename bitcoins
bitcoin-otc.com (Over The Counter market, dohadovanie sa s ludmi cez IRC.)
BTC-E
BitStamp
bitcoin.de trochu iny exchange, platby priamo kupujuci predavajucemu, organizuju len match making a escrow bitcoin
bitcoin central zmenaren podnikajuca vo francuzsku, ponuka ochranu eur vkladov cez partnerstvo s financne licencovanou firmou (ale bez obav, web maju aj po anglicky). na prelome marca/aprila 2013 haknuti, obnovili prevadzku po tyzdni
Kraken.com
Cryptsy - vymena cryptocurrencies
CryptFolio - sledovanie crypto-burz
krachnute veci
MtGox
MtGox Recovery - hromadna zaloba

Trading platformy, roboty - online aj offline
BitRule - webapp trading platforma, ma stoploss, podporuje BTC-E, Bitstamp
BTXTrader - webapp/offline trading platforma, podporuje BTC-E, Bitstamp, CampBX, BTC-China, BTX Algo, BTX Cross
Haas - Automated Trading Bot (for 0.25 BTC)
Cryptotrader bot
Botcoin bot (free)

Bitcoin News
CryptocoinsNews
Crypto News
Coindesk
Kryptomena.sk
Crypto Pros
Cryptocoin Updates

Bitcoin Trading signaly a analyzy
BTC Trading Signals blog
XCharts Market Blog
CoinReporting - Profil / Loss Portfolio Monitor + signaly

Bitcoin ako mince
Physical Bitcoins by Casascius
CryptMint - coiny s vygravirovanou adresou ako QR code

Studie, analyzy
Is Bitcoin a Decentralized Currency? [pdf]
BTC Scalability [pdf]

Financne derivaty aka akcie za BTC
Crypto::Stocks - burza s akciami Bitcoin podnikov (napr. Cryptsy)
Ethereum - burza s akciami Bitcoin podnikov

Ine
http://blockexplorer.com/ - jedna s najstarsich sluzieb uz castejsie nefunguje nez funguje - taky praotec blochchain.info
tiez ine http://lesswrong.com/lw/4cs/making_money_with_bitcoin/3lq1
WeUseCoins - ako funguje BTC atd.
VNBitcoin - vyborna BTC mining profit kalkulacka a ine veci o BTC
Coinunity.sk
Bitcoin bankomat v BA

Kde minut BTC
BTCTrip - lietanie za BTC
Bitcoin Yellow Pages - sluzby za BTC na celom svete
Cryptothrift - nieco ako ebay s BTC
Gyft - gift cards aka darcekove poukazky
Overstock - obrovsky US e-shop s roznym tovarom

Davajte si velky pozor na podvodnikov! Bitcoiny su nevratitelne (na rozdiel od napriklad kartovych transakcii), ked uz niekomu bitcoiny poslete, jediny sposob ako sa k nim dostat naspat je, ked vam ich adresat dobrovolne vrati!
August 2011 zhasla sluzba mybitcoin a stratilo sa v nej 70k+ bitcoins.
August 2012 zhasla nebankovka Pirate's BST s nejakymi desiatkami tisic btc missing in action. nieco sa rozdelilo medzi glbse assets (pass thru funds) a nieco maju na uctoch priami veritelia.

Bitcoin je delitelny na 8 desatinnych miest. V podstate je kazdy bitcoin 100.000.000 jednotiek (prezyvanych satoshi). Cize aj 0,01 bitcoinu je este stale milion cohosi.

toto forum nieje recycle bin. este raz sem bude niekto parentovat picoviny dostane ban aj on, vid stabna kultura

Pribuzne fora
crypto-stocks (Cryptocurrency Trading)
-Other Cryptocurrencies [LTC,NVC,PPC,FTC,NMC,TRC,FRC,WDC...](Linkz and other stuff, mining rigs, settings)-)




0000010100063540000635900573432008384879
pht
 pht      20.08.2017 - 13:31:03 , level: 1, UP   NEW
http://fork.lol/

000001010006354000063590057343200838487908384891
popo
 popo      20.08.2017 - 14:33:20 , level: 2, UP   NEW
nejak im ten heš rate klesol. srdce minerov poskocilo a tesia sa z vacsich ziskov

0000010100063540000635900573432008384351
dudel
 dudel      18.08.2017 - 14:18:25 , level: 1, UP   NEW
bch
ak este niekto drzi BCH a chce sa toho zbavit tak teraz je ten spravny cas si myslim...

000001010006354000063590057343200838435108385039
☻
       20.08.2017 - 21:40:06 (modif: 20.08.2017 - 21:40:24), level: 2, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
snad Ta nikto nepocuvol :))
TU9izsW.png

00000101000635400006359005734320083843510838503908385102
dudel
 dudel      20.08.2017 - 23:05:17 , level: 3, UP   NEW
uplne sa ujebal ten coin...
fakt nevim co je za tym. nake whales ci stalo sa nieco co som nepostrehol?

0000010100063540000635900573432008384351083850390838510208385278
pht
 pht      21.08.2017 - 12:32:47 , level: 4, UP   NEW
vid link vyssie
bch mining profitability 2x btc aj pri nizsej cene, difficulty ovela nizsia, po uprave hashrate na vzostupe, este to moze byt zaujimave

000001010006354000063590057343200838435108385039083851020838527808385307
dudel
 dudel      21.08.2017 - 13:31:56 , level: 5, UP   NEW
jou, videl som.
dava to zmysel :)

0000010100063540000635900573432008382838
stick
 stick      15.08.2017 - 23:46:06 (modif: 15.08.2017 - 23:47:27) [7K] , level: 1, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
cypherpunk mokre sny!

https://blockstream.com/satellite/

http://gk2.sk/how-to-push-bitcoin-transactions-via-sms/

000001010006354000063590057343200838283808382926
lubomier.sk
 lubomier.sk      16.08.2017 - 09:41:34 , level: 2, UP   NEW
To s tými SMSkami si dal na pána. <3

00000101000635400006359005734320083828380838292608383166
stick
 stick      16.08.2017 - 14:15:42 , level: 3, UP   NEW
dakujem ;)

000001010006354000063590057343200838283808382898
ulkas
 ulkas      16.08.2017 - 09:10:23 , level: 2, UP   NEW
ako presne inak streamuje tych 150gb? akoze loopuje od zaciatku do konca a teda si musis pockat par dni aby si nasiel ten zaciatok vobec? alebo loopuje len posledne transakcie?

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vygidor
 vygidor      16.08.2017 - 09:25:52 , level: 3, UP   NEW
odpovede najdes tu:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6tucuh/announcing_blockstream_satellite/

"How does the initial sync works? Do the satelites constantly Broadcast the whole blockchain? Sending 150GB via Satellit musst take ages?

Right now we're not doing initial sync-- just redundant transmission of recent blocks. With our existing signals you can set up the dish to start getting blocks, then have someone ship you a hard-drive or bluray disk with the history. (Or sync it from an expensive terrestrial internet connection that you'd prefer to not use actively going forward)
In the future it's likely Bitcoin nodes will support a sync from UTXO set, with that we would likely be able to do a sync over the sat with a week or two synctime. Perhaps faster if we're able to extract more bandwidth from the sat when we get more testing feedback from people."

0000010100063540000635900573432008380193
SYNAPSE CREATOR
 ulkas      09.08.2017 - 13:59:17 , level: 1, UP   NEW  HARDLINK
update ohladom btc-e:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2075551.0

translator:
Update5! Important! 08/09/2017

Exit from the current situation with the arrested Fiat:

1. Last 14 days we were engaged in struggle for your means, it was possible to gain control over 55% of funds (depends on the course), the remaining 45% are arrested funds, the most part in fiat. As the arrest is withdrawn from the accounts, the amount will decrease.

2. What is the way out of the current situation we see:
2.1. Work under the current BTC-e brand is not possible due to unresolved issues from the Office of Financial Crimes of the US Treasury.
2.2. At the moment, we are negotiating with a group of investors (an investment company), about buying and prompt launch of the service and repaying debts to customers. Further, the process of repayment of debt obligations will be described in more detail.
2.3. After we transfer all balance sheets of the investment company, we will recalculate the balance sheets.
2.4. The conversion procedure, taking into account the available 55% of funds:
2.4.1. All liabilities for fiat (USD, EUR, RUR) will be transferred to BTE tokens (1 BTE is 1 USD) at the exchange rate on the date of conversion. Probably, for more operative closing of promissory notes, ICO will be held on BTE tokens.
2.4.2. If you have on the balance the amount in koin, then you will be written off 45% of the balance of coins and credited with 45% of BTE (1 BTE is 1 USD). At the exchange rate on the day of conversion.
2.4.3. If you have a balance in BTE, then you will be credited with 45% in koin (the amount will be divided into 7 different coins equally BTC, LTC, NMC, NVC, PPC, ETH, DSH) and write off the amount of 45% in BTE.
2.4.4. Upon all recalculations, all users will have the opportunity to withdraw 55% of their funds from the system.
2.5. The investment company works in compliance with KYC, AML and the licenses required for this activity, so all users will need to undergo verification.
2.6. Tentative start dates end of August.

3. All debt obligations will be closed primarily from operating income from the investment company's commission, as well as from the funds we plan to sue from those who illegally arrested them.

The closing of the debt will be based on the principle of buying BTE tokens from the market.

The next update will provide more details on the procedure for accessing information on your balance sheet and when these funds can be withdrawn.

From the BTC-e team we officially inform that all the funds that were in the reserve fund (including all our income) were transferred to pay off the debts.

P.S. A warning! The cases of posting fake links on allegedly our new domain have become more frequent. All official information about our service is placed only in our twitter and from our official account on the forum.

Sincerely, BTC-e team

0000010100063540000635900573432008379968
mysak
 mysak      09.08.2017 - 07:39:38 , level: 1, UP   NEW
Ako sa divate na BCH? Napodiv aj po tom, ako Kraken otvoril funding cez BCC sa cena drzi, dokonca stupla. Povodne som sa toho chcel hned zbavit a vymenit za nieco ine, ale teraz zvazujem cast nechat. Uz ich mam na krakene - t.j. tx casy tiez nie su nerealne dlhe... Ma to perspektivu?

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ulkas
 ulkas      09.08.2017 - 08:21:33 , level: 2, UP   NEW
msusi sledovat cenu voci BTC, nie voci dolaru. cize ano, voci dolaru sice bcash stupol spat na 300+, ale to je kvoli tomu, ze samotne btc stuplo z 2700 na 3400, pricom pomer bch/btc zostal rovnaky.

ja osobne sa cudujem, ze sa to celkom drzi, ja som svoje uz predal pri pomere ~0.08btc/1bch. kazdopadne, btc dni su celkom zratane a ziadne segwity nepomozu s tymi transakciami, iba oddaluju problem dalej do buducna a komplikuju samotny protokol. v poslednom case opat ciham ppc, ktore to ma velmi pekne poriesene toto , a moze si vyberat z tucta dobrych a est elepsich rieseni v pripade, ze sa naplni block limit.

0000010100063540000635900573432008378710
ulkas
 ulkas      04.08.2017 - 21:50:14 (modif: 04.08.2017 - 21:52:19), level: 1, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
ako velmi bezpecne mam chapat 12 slovny seed. ak by som vzal v uvahu, ze anglictina ma povedzme 100 000 slov, mame 12 slov v seede, to je 100 000^12 moznosti (10^60). 1Ghz procesor, ak uvazujeme ze narocnost celeho vypoctu je proste najzakladnejsia operacia na jeden takt, da za rok ~3x10^13 kombinacii, cize za takych 100-500 rokov by mal obsiahnut vsetky tie moznosti. do toho odpocitat pocet pouzitych penazeniek (nic moc, asi 5 minut prace), -50% ako statistika ze to trafim v polovici, tak by som za tych 50-250 rokov na tak slabom pocitaci to mal vediet obsiahnut predsa.

ak by sa na to spravil primitivny asic, co klati 100x viac prace ako sprosty cpu, tak za 0.5-2.5 roku musim trafit polovicu vsetkych penazeniek. nejaka cinska asic farma by to davala radovo v dnoch. ci?




respektive nechapem, odkial nabrali to tvrdenie, ze to ma 2^256 moznosti:
How secure is the seed?
The seed phrase created by Electrum has 132 bits of entropy. This means that it provides the same level of security as a Bitcoin private key (of length 256 bits). Indeed, an elliptic curve key of length n provides n/2 bits of security.

lebo ten seed string predsa ma dopredu zname cele slova a nie nahodne znaky.

000001010006354000063590057343200837871008380115
Prospero
 Prospero      09.08.2017 - 12:33:12 (modif: 09.08.2017 - 12:34:41) [1K] , level: 2, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
Si ešte raz čítam ten Tvoj príspevok, a moc mi nieje jasný ten preskok od 10^13 hypoteticky preverených kombinácií za rok, a následným úsudkom že za "takych 100-500 rokov mal obsiahnut vsetky tie moznosti".

100 rokov je predsa 10^2 rokov, tisic je predsa 10^3...

Ved predsa ajkeby si disponoval hypotetickym devicom co preveri 10^30 kombinacii za rok (dost unreal), a ajkeby si pri kazdom prevereni overil 10^20 walletov (uplne unreal), stale by si potreboval na preskumanie celeho priestoru 10^10 rokov (t.j. bilion rokov)

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ulkas
 ulkas      09.08.2017 - 14:01:48 (modif: 09.08.2017 - 14:02:38), level: 3, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
skusim to tu znovu:
3x10^13 za rok
6x10^13 za dva roky
za tri roky je to uz 9x10^13, zaokruhlene 1x10^14
za 6 rokov zaokruhlene 1x10^15, atd atd. za 100 rokov teda 10x^(13+33)

mylim sa?

0000010100063540000635900573432008378710083801150838019508380234
ulkas
 ulkas      09.08.2017 - 15:15:28 (modif: 09.08.2017 - 15:15:59), level: 4, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
ok sak klud nie, mozem tu pisat siahodlhe uvahy a nikto ani neprdne, a az ked napisem konecne ten spravny 1 riadkovy awareness tak tu precitnete vsetci namokro.

uz som si to uvedomil, kde som spravil tu chybu. v principe som pri kazdom umocneni 10kou zvysil aj pocet moznych vypocitanych kombinacii a nepocital so starou hodnotou (konstantou) 3x10^13, ale navysil ju na 3x10^14, atd v kazdom tretom roku.

vdaka hromimu za spravny popud, kde som to mal zle.

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jurov
 jurov      09.08.2017 - 14:47:40 (modif: 09.08.2017 - 15:00:04), level: 4, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
coooo ty mas kvantovo paralelny algoritmus - opakovane kazde 3 roky sa ti nakoti z kazdeho vesmiru tisic paralelnych vesmirov a v nich pocitas?

aj ja sceeeem!!!!

E: ale vazne, nastuduj si kolko je 10^14 + 10^14 ...

Historia, meretrix vitae.

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dd[Locked_OUT]
 dd[Locked_OUT]      09.08.2017 - 14:40:28 , level: 4, UP   NEW
?? ak cohokolvek za tri roky je 10^14, tak za sest rokov je toho 2x 10^14 a za tristo rokov toho je 10^16.

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dodo
 dodo      08.08.2017 - 21:22:35 , level: 2, UP   NEW
nice... diskusie ako je tato mi na kybci chybaju. davaju dostatok podnetov a informacii na to, aby si clovek cital a studoval dalsi tyzden/mesiac o niecom, co ho zaujima...

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stick
 stick      04.08.2017 - 23:51:01 (modif: 04.08.2017 - 23:58:33) [3K] , level: 2, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
2048 ^ 12 == 2 ^ 132

Oni netvrdia ze je to 2^256 moznosti, ale ze je to 2^132 moznosti (to znamena to "132 bits of entropy"). A potom dalej tvrdia ze elipticka krivka, co ma 256-bitov poskytuje bezpecnost, ktora sa rovna 128-bitovej entropii (n/2) a ze teda 12 slov staci (lebo to 2048 ^ 12 je viac ako 2 ^ 128).

a potom dalej mas celu tvoju uvahu zle, pretoze cely ten vypocet, ako ty tvrdis netrva jeden takt, ale mrte vela taktov (precitaj si ten BIP39 - spomina sa tam PBKDF2). na mojom CPU (2.5 GHz) to dava tak 200 mnemonicov za sekundu, takze cca 6 miliard rocne, co je uplne inde ako tvoj "odhad" s ktorym dalej pocitas.

potom este zanedbavas fakt, ze na to aby si zistil, ci si trafil pouzivany mnemonic sa musis pozriet do blockchainu (ci na prvej adrese nieco je) a na to aby si sa mohol pozriet do blockchainu 200x za sekundu musis mat opat trosku inu masinu (a uz vobec nie asic - ale ako okej, mozes to na asicu generovat, ale co potom s tymi datami co ti to predpocita? to uz je lepsie fakt generovat nahodne kluce a pozerat sa do blockchainu ci si sa netrafil a celu tu onaniu s mnemonicom preskocit).

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ulkas
 ulkas      05.08.2017 - 02:06:33 (modif: 05.08.2017 - 02:12:36) [1K] , level: 3, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
samozrejme som uvazoval jeden takt pre jednoduchost, ak by niekto teoreticky vedel vymysliet taky perfektny dedikovany cip.

cekovanie blockchainu, co si myslim, ze nie je vobec ziaden problem - vytiahnes si vsetky zname btc adressy, spravis si hash tabulku a len porovnavas s indexom tvoj vysledok predsa. tu hash tabulku napajkujes do cipu a je to vsetko s narocnoustou 1.

tam sa skor spominala nejaka ina vec, okrem seedu sa tam dalej nejake 2000x sha256 hasovalo a do toho zaratali nejake salty na zaciatok a na koniec. co sice nedavalo ziadnu ochranu voci uhadnutiu saltu, ale malo to mat nejaku efektivitu ohladom cekovania niecoho.

inak skusim odhadnut tvoj cpu vzhladom napriklad na bitcoinove asici. gpu miner mal 100x lepsi vykon, asic 1000x prinajmensom. to ti dava uz 200 000 menomonicov za sekundu, a to vravim o hlupom najzakladnejsom asicu. nejaka farma by to naboostovala kludne aj 1000 nasobne, cize 200 000 000 mnemonicov za sekundu, co je teda milion krat rychlejsie ako tvoj cpu (6miliard rocne vs 6 miliard x milion = 10^15).

hm, 6x10^15 nie je take zle, to by trvalo len do 10 rokov mat kompletnu rainbow table, a ako pisem, statisticky by si mal trafit ciel na 50% maximalneho casu, takze za 5 rokov by to mal niekto s moznostami stihnut

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Prospero
 Prospero      05.08.2017 - 16:17:53 (modif: 05.08.2017 - 16:22:12) [4K] , level: 4, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
Ulkasu, byt Tebou tak sa na PBKDF2, SHA2 atd. vykaslem (ajked samozrejme vo fakte ze kazdu 160-bitov dlhu BTC adresu X vygenerujes - v pripade ze je samozrejme distribucia homogenna - v priemere z cca 2^96 256bitovych retazcov ... spociva urcity vtip ;)

Pretoze ked riesis kolizie, bruteforcy, SHA2, pripadne este tie nizsie (rozumej "zamotanejsie", "spinavsie" protokoly na ktorych su zalozene wallety atd.), tak za vzdalujes od tej jednej jedinej* hadanky ktora stoji za to aby si do jej riesenia investoval cas svojho Zivota, a totiz riesenie diskretneho logaritmu (t.j. odvodenie private key z public key)

* mozno namietnut ze aj skumanie vlastnosti Weil & Tate parovania, rypanie sa v Decisional Diffie-Hellman assumption, ci rozjimanie nad pripadnym "leakovanim" informacie o private key do hodnot r,s z ktorych sa sklada kazda signatura je tiez problem ktory stoji za hlbsie preskumanie ... v porovnani so symetriami na ktore je treba nahliadnut pri rieseni diskretneho logaritmu je to vsak stale len velkym-mnozstvom-dodatocnych-vypoctov-zapatlane blatko

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burbaky
 burbaky      06.08.2017 - 21:40:05 , level: 5, UP   NEW
Ty už to nehúľ.

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Prospero
 Prospero      09.08.2017 - 12:21:17 , level: 6, UP   NEW

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ulkas
 ulkas      06.08.2017 - 11:21:17 , level: 5, UP   NEW
len ja som nehovoril o luskani klasickeho rsa kluca. ale o tom seede, teda mnozina 2000 slov, z ktorych vyberies 12. a z tychto 12 slov sa predgenerovavaju aj vsetky dalsie adresy v pripade, ze mas tu deterministicku HD penazenku.

v principe, pocet kombinacii nebol nijak zavratny, akurat to obmedzovala narocnost jednej operacie. kdesi som aj dohladal konkretne narocnosti. ja som predpokladal urcitu exponencialnu vyhody dedikovaneho hw cipu, ktoreho uplnu optimalizaciu nedokaze predsa nikto predikovat - to je ako prepovedanie, ze intel neprida do cpu dalsiu novu instrukciu ako mmx, kde proste sa vykasles na hrubu silu a primitivne preskocis rad vypoctov, lebo statisticky mas vysoku sancu trafit vysledok konkretneho bitu (a potom to revertnes ak si nahodou netrafil). pripadne veci ako pralelizmus a prepouzitie uz vypocitanych spolocnych subcasti do dalsieho vypoctu atd.

preto som predpokladal vypocet na 1 takt.

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jurov
 jurov      06.08.2017 - 15:48:01 , level: 6, UP   NEW
Analogia s MMX je mimo, nemozno porovnavat jednoduche aritmeticke operacie a PBKDF2 s tisicami krokov. Teoreticky sa to da spravit pomocou pipeline ale na to by trebalo tolko tranzistorov ze to zas nijako neuchladis.

Pre istotu som sa pozrel ako to asi realne vyzera.

Tu su nejake cisla o PBKDF2 na 8 x Nvidia GPU. Povedzme teda ze mame henten hw a 10 kH/s.

2^123 / 10000 / (3600*365) = 3.37*10^25 rokov

Nemyslim si ze niekto dokaze vyrobit ASIC ktory by urychlil PBKDF2 10^20-krat, aby sa to dalo bruteforcnut.

Historia, meretrix vitae.

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akira
 akira      06.08.2017 - 11:56:50 , level: 6, UP   NEW
Pri spravne vygenerovanom kluci (ktorykolvek z klucov sa vyskytne s rovnakou pravdepodobnostou, vyber je nepredikovatelny atd) ti statisticke metody neposkytuju ziadnu vyhodu. Ak poskytnu, znamena ze kluc nie je vygenerovany spravne. Ano, potom to znamena oslabenie / prelomenie celeho systemu.

A 2^132 je KURVA velke cislo na to aby sa to preslo cez bruteforce. Pre RSA by to bol malicky kluc ale prvocisla a operacie nad nimi maju trocha inu strukturu. A tam sa pouziju aritmeticke a statisticke vlastnosti toho priestoru na urychlenie faktorizacie.

A dalsia vec je ze nevyberies 12 slov. Vygenerujes 132 bitov, rozsekas na 11 bitove bloky a tie slova pozijes len ako mnemotechnicku pomocku.

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stick
 stick      05.08.2017 - 07:49:18 (modif: 06.08.2017 - 16:00:32) [3K] , level: 4, UP   NEW !!CONTENT CHANGED!!
o technologiach nieco malo vies, ale potom to cele zabijes tym, nejakou totalne nelogickou vecou. napriklad: ked procesor bezi na 2 Ghz a trva mu operacia 10 milionov cyklov, tak asi tazko urobis asic, ktory da operaciu na "jeden" takt a bude tiez bezat na 2 ghz. za druhe ked vie asic 1000x rychlejsie spravit sha256 ako komp, tak to este neznamena ze vie 1000x rychlejsie spravit aj PBKDF2, pretoze tie sha256 moze robit kludne paralelne, zatialco vo vnutri pbkdf2 su tie hashe spojene do serie. ak by si nahodou chcel robil paralelne 1000 pbkdf2 vypoctov tak zasa potrebujes trosku nieco ine, par radov zlozitejsie, ako dnesne sha256 asicy (ktore vlastne ani nepocitaju normalny cely sha256 hash, ale iba jeho midstate). aby som to nejak zhrnul, nema pre teba vobec zmysel pokracovat v tychto pseudouvahach, kym si tie veci nenastudujes do hlbky (a to myslim v dobrom). takto iba hadzes do kalkulacky cisla, ktore si si velmi velmi zlymi sposobmi vycucal z prsta, co je dost zbytocne straveny cas.

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Prospero
 Prospero      05.08.2017 - 16:30:28 [3K] , level: 5, UP   NEW
Sticku, je nutne vycitat druhemu diskuterovi "zbytocne straveny cas (moj aj tvoj)" ked Ta k investicii Tvojho casu do toho prispevku nik nenuti ?

Alebo ma vysvetlovat urcite veci bavi, a potom ich vysvetlujem a cinim tak s radostou, alebo iste formy daydreamingu inych ludi neriesim a ignorujem ich. Ale robit nieco dobrovolne a potom naznacovat druhemu cloveku ze mu vlastne poskytujes blahosklonnu sluzbu mi prijde trochu nefer.

Alebo sa mylim ?